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	<title>Comments on: Ethanol: The Great Big Green Fraud</title>
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	<link>http://stephenleahy.net/2007/10/21/ethanol-the-great-big-green-fraud/</link>
	<description>Discovering Global Environmental Interconnections</description>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://stephenleahy.net/2007/10/21/ethanol-the-great-big-green-fraud/#comment-9466</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stephen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 18:06:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stephenleahy.wordpress.com/2007/10/21/ethanol-the-great-big-green-fraud/#comment-9466</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Antisocialist: I hope you&#039;ve changed yr views since you wrote this. It is denialist blather like the Oregon petition which was a fraud and been debunked many times.  You speak of logic but ignore real facts and measurements. Temps are up 0.8C and continuing upwards, sea level as well, Arctic ice is melting etc, etc. and the rates of change are accelerating. It&#039;s not too hard to see where this is all going...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Antisocialist: I hope you&#8217;ve changed yr views since you wrote this. It is denialist blather like the Oregon petition which was a fraud and been debunked many times.  You speak of logic but ignore real facts and measurements. Temps are up 0.8C and continuing upwards, sea level as well, Arctic ice is melting etc, etc. and the rates of change are accelerating. It&#8217;s not too hard to see where this is all going&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://stephenleahy.net/2007/10/21/ethanol-the-great-big-green-fraud/#comment-9465</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stephen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 17:57:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stephenleahy.wordpress.com/2007/10/21/ethanol-the-great-big-green-fraud/#comment-9465</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mohan: Not aware of any studies showing grain-based (corn etc) ethanol is sustainable. All are heavily subsidized by govts and science shows the do not result in net carbon emission reductions. and then there is the impact on food prices. Not discounting that sugar cane, sugar beets might result in less emissions but where is the extra land going to come from to grow them? There is no spare land on a planet of nearly 7 billion people]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mohan: Not aware of any studies showing grain-based (corn etc) ethanol is sustainable. All are heavily subsidized by govts and science shows the do not result in net carbon emission reductions. and then there is the impact on food prices. Not discounting that sugar cane, sugar beets might result in less emissions but where is the extra land going to come from to grow them? There is no spare land on a planet of nearly 7 billion people</p>
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		<title>By: propaganda press</title>
		<link>http://stephenleahy.net/2007/10/21/ethanol-the-great-big-green-fraud/#comment-8644</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[propaganda press]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 06:19:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stephenleahy.wordpress.com/2007/10/21/ethanol-the-great-big-green-fraud/#comment-8644</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[classic americana
fraud fraud and more fraud]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>classic americana<br />
fraud fraud and more fraud</p>
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		<title>By: Xtracycle: The Bicycle Revolution Gets An Extension &#124; StuffGeeksWant</title>
		<link>http://stephenleahy.net/2007/10/21/ethanol-the-great-big-green-fraud/#comment-8593</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Xtracycle: The Bicycle Revolution Gets An Extension &#124; StuffGeeksWant]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 16:27:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stephenleahy.wordpress.com/2007/10/21/ethanol-the-great-big-green-fraud/#comment-8593</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] green is our future. While some aspects will inevitably become faddish and rife with snake-oil claims, there are many positive ways to reshape our consumer [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] green is our future. While some aspects will inevitably become faddish and rife with snake-oil claims, there are many positive ways to reshape our consumer [...]</p>
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		<title>By: America&#8217;s Biofuel Gladiators &#171; Stephen Leahy Environmental Journalist</title>
		<link>http://stephenleahy.net/2007/10/21/ethanol-the-great-big-green-fraud/#comment-8146</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[America&#8217;s Biofuel Gladiators &#171; Stephen Leahy Environmental Journalist]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 22:19:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stephenleahy.wordpress.com/2007/10/21/ethanol-the-great-big-green-fraud/#comment-8146</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] previously published articles on biofuels/energy: Ethanol: The Great Big Green Fraud &#8211; Government subsidies amount to $15 billion in [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] previously published articles on biofuels/energy: Ethanol: The Great Big Green Fraud &#8211; Government subsidies amount to $15 billion in [...]</p>
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		<title>By: MOHAN BAJIKAR</title>
		<link>http://stephenleahy.net/2007/10/21/ethanol-the-great-big-green-fraud/#comment-6222</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MOHAN BAJIKAR]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 15:22:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stephenleahy.wordpress.com/2007/10/21/ethanol-the-great-big-green-fraud/#comment-6222</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Issues of concern expressed are:

1. Global warming
2. Food for Fuel
3. Cost benifit
4. Environmental impact.

My response ;

Environment has carrying capacity for anything excess. When the limit exceeds there are bound to be adverse effects. 

There Saline/Sodic lands man made or otherwise unfit for cultivation food crops. But some energy crops like Sugarbeet can certainly grown and value added bioethanol could be produced. There are reports suggesting
Ethanol is sustainable. How do you view this argument particularly in view of the fact that Oil prices have reached almost $100 a barrel.

Can I expect your response to my email id above.

Thanks in advance &amp; regards

MOHAN BAJIKAR
INDIA]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Issues of concern expressed are:</p>
<p>1. Global warming<br />
2. Food for Fuel<br />
3. Cost benifit<br />
4. Environmental impact.</p>
<p>My response ;</p>
<p>Environment has carrying capacity for anything excess. When the limit exceeds there are bound to be adverse effects. </p>
<p>There Saline/Sodic lands man made or otherwise unfit for cultivation food crops. But some energy crops like Sugarbeet can certainly grown and value added bioethanol could be produced. There are reports suggesting<br />
Ethanol is sustainable. How do you view this argument particularly in view of the fact that Oil prices have reached almost $100 a barrel.</p>
<p>Can I expect your response to my email id above.</p>
<p>Thanks in advance &amp; regards</p>
<p>MOHAN BAJIKAR<br />
INDIA</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: antisocialist</title>
		<link>http://stephenleahy.net/2007/10/21/ethanol-the-great-big-green-fraud/#comment-5262</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[antisocialist]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2007 21:13:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stephenleahy.wordpress.com/2007/10/21/ethanol-the-great-big-green-fraud/#comment-5262</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;The rest of the world,&quot; you say? &lt;em&gt;My&lt;/em&gt; blind willingness (which implies that your willingness to believe is not blind)? 

Are you kidding?

For starters, the antisocialist has never denied &quot;global warming&quot; qua global warming, and I&#039;m not quite sure where you&#039;re getting that notion. Nor am I sure where you&#039;re getting that notion from my ethanol article. In fact, the earth&#039;s temperature has increased: about one degree over the last century. 

(Also, out of curiosity, where derives your standard for what the earth&#039;s temperature properly should be? Where does the universal &quot;ideal temperature&quot; come from? Who said? Al Gore?)

If, however, what you&#039;re saying is that the antisocialist calls catastrophic, man-made global warming a hoax, then you&#039;re absolutely correct. In fact, it&#039;s nothing but a hoax. It&#039;s also more scare-mongering, a power play. Quote: &quot;It should be realized that the goal of global limits on carbon dioxide and other chemical emissions, as called for in the Kyoto treaty, easily lends itself to the establishment of world-wide central planning with respect to a wide variety of essential means of production. Indeed, an explicit bridge between socialism and environmentalism is supplied by one of the most prominent theorists of the environmental movement, Barry Commoner, who was also the Green Party’s first candidate for President of the United States…&quot; 

Do you know where that quote comes from? (Hint: you agree with him.) 

Presumably, though, when you say &quot;the rest of the world,&quot; you&#039;re excluding the more than &lt;em&gt;17,000&lt;/em&gt; North American scientists who signed the Oregon petition. And when you say &quot;the rest of the world&quot; you&#039;re presumably excluding the more than &lt;em&gt;40,000&lt;/em&gt; scientists world-wide, ranging from climatolgoists, to geophysicists, to oceanographers, who resoundingly reject the idea of catastrophic, man-made global warming. In other words, then, to avoid this, as you say, &quot;blind willingness,&quot; as you yourself have sagely avoided it, one must ignore all these thousands of experts and all the reasoning of these thousands and thousands of people (such as the brilliant Doctor John Christy who was recently put on the stand in New Hampshire, pitted against that complete fraud of a scientist named Jim Hansen, whom cross-examining exposed, and who statedly refuses to &quot;talk to anyone who doesn&#039;t support man-made, catastrophic global warming&quot; but was forced to because of court-order), and instead just go with you because you say we must rethink our &quot;blind willingness.&quot; Presumably, by &quot;the rest of the world&quot; you also exclude those many who recently attended the global warming debate, put on by the New York debating society, the vast majority of which attendees went in believing in catastrophic, man-made global warming and came out persuaded the other way, by rational argumentation, and presumably by &quot;the rest of the world&quot; you exclude the redoubtable Doctor Bill Gray, who lives in my hometown, who is universally known as one of the greatest climate scientists of them all. In fact, to even believe that &quot;the rest of the world,&quot; as you say, accepts this catastrophic premise, we must ignore the thousands and thousands of scientists who have publicly come out against it, including Doctor Gray when he&#039;s across from us, explaining climate science. And to do this, you say, to ignore all these people, is &lt;em&gt;not&lt;/em&gt; &quot;blind willingness&quot;? In other words, to avoid &quot;blind willingness&quot; we must shut off rational discourse, and reasoning, and, in short, the scientific method, because people like you wish to strong-arm those of us who listen to and are persuaded by aruguments from the other side, and instead we must swallow the premise you accept, because you say so, and thereby avoid this, as you say, &quot;blind willingness.&quot; Is this a paradox? We avoid &quot;blind willingness&quot; by blindly accepting what you consider axiomatic, but what others -- scientists, no less -- don&#039;t? 

Well, you&#039;ll forgive the antisocialist if he favors a more logical approach for now -- rather than this shutting off of all conversation that&#039;s repeatedly called for (&quot;Silence! The debate is over&quot;), and all the other fraudulent non-science and poltical propagandizing, like:

“No matter if the science is all phony, there are still collateral environmental benefits [to global warming scare-mongering]” said Christine Stewart, Canada’s environmental minister.

Or:

“On the one hand, as scientists, we are ethically bound to the scientific method, in effect promising to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but.… On the other hand, we are not just scientists, but human beings as well. And like most people we’d like to see the world a better place. To do that we need to get some broad-based support, to capture the public’s imagination. That, of course, entails getting loads of media coverage. So we have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements, and make little mention of any doubts we ourselves might have….Each of us has to decide” (as opposed to letting the actual facts dictate) “what the right balance is between being effective and being honest,” (said environmental high priest Stephen Schneider of Stanford University, and also director of Atmospheric Science in Boulder, Colorado, speaking to Discover Magazine, p. 47.)

Or: 

“The environmental movement is just repackaged Marxism,” said Patrick Moore, co-founder of Green Peace.

And of course:

“Nobody is interested in solutions if they don’t think there’s a problem. Given that starting point, I believe it is appropriate to have an over-representation of factual presentations on how dangerous it is, as a predicate for opening up the audience to listen.” Mr. Albert Gore, ladies and gentlemen, Grist Magazine.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The rest of the world,&#8221; you say? <em>My</em> blind willingness (which implies that your willingness to believe is not blind)? </p>
<p>Are you kidding?</p>
<p>For starters, the antisocialist has never denied &#8220;global warming&#8221; qua global warming, and I&#8217;m not quite sure where you&#8217;re getting that notion. Nor am I sure where you&#8217;re getting that notion from my ethanol article. In fact, the earth&#8217;s temperature has increased: about one degree over the last century. </p>
<p>(Also, out of curiosity, where derives your standard for what the earth&#8217;s temperature properly should be? Where does the universal &#8220;ideal temperature&#8221; come from? Who said? Al Gore?)</p>
<p>If, however, what you&#8217;re saying is that the antisocialist calls catastrophic, man-made global warming a hoax, then you&#8217;re absolutely correct. In fact, it&#8217;s nothing but a hoax. It&#8217;s also more scare-mongering, a power play. Quote: &#8220;It should be realized that the goal of global limits on carbon dioxide and other chemical emissions, as called for in the Kyoto treaty, easily lends itself to the establishment of world-wide central planning with respect to a wide variety of essential means of production. Indeed, an explicit bridge between socialism and environmentalism is supplied by one of the most prominent theorists of the environmental movement, Barry Commoner, who was also the Green Party’s first candidate for President of the United States…&#8221; </p>
<p>Do you know where that quote comes from? (Hint: you agree with him.) </p>
<p>Presumably, though, when you say &#8220;the rest of the world,&#8221; you&#8217;re excluding the more than <em>17,000</em> North American scientists who signed the Oregon petition. And when you say &#8220;the rest of the world&#8221; you&#8217;re presumably excluding the more than <em>40,000</em> scientists world-wide, ranging from climatolgoists, to geophysicists, to oceanographers, who resoundingly reject the idea of catastrophic, man-made global warming. In other words, then, to avoid this, as you say, &#8220;blind willingness,&#8221; as you yourself have sagely avoided it, one must ignore all these thousands of experts and all the reasoning of these thousands and thousands of people (such as the brilliant Doctor John Christy who was recently put on the stand in New Hampshire, pitted against that complete fraud of a scientist named Jim Hansen, whom cross-examining exposed, and who statedly refuses to &#8220;talk to anyone who doesn&#8217;t support man-made, catastrophic global warming&#8221; but was forced to because of court-order), and instead just go with you because you say we must rethink our &#8220;blind willingness.&#8221; Presumably, by &#8220;the rest of the world&#8221; you also exclude those many who recently attended the global warming debate, put on by the New York debating society, the vast majority of which attendees went in believing in catastrophic, man-made global warming and came out persuaded the other way, by rational argumentation, and presumably by &#8220;the rest of the world&#8221; you exclude the redoubtable Doctor Bill Gray, who lives in my hometown, who is universally known as one of the greatest climate scientists of them all. In fact, to even believe that &#8220;the rest of the world,&#8221; as you say, accepts this catastrophic premise, we must ignore the thousands and thousands of scientists who have publicly come out against it, including Doctor Gray when he&#8217;s across from us, explaining climate science. And to do this, you say, to ignore all these people, is <em>not</em> &#8220;blind willingness&#8221;? In other words, to avoid &#8220;blind willingness&#8221; we must shut off rational discourse, and reasoning, and, in short, the scientific method, because people like you wish to strong-arm those of us who listen to and are persuaded by aruguments from the other side, and instead we must swallow the premise you accept, because you say so, and thereby avoid this, as you say, &#8220;blind willingness.&#8221; Is this a paradox? We avoid &#8220;blind willingness&#8221; by blindly accepting what you consider axiomatic, but what others &#8212; scientists, no less &#8212; don&#8217;t? </p>
<p>Well, you&#8217;ll forgive the antisocialist if he favors a more logical approach for now &#8212; rather than this shutting off of all conversation that&#8217;s repeatedly called for (&#8220;Silence! The debate is over&#8221;), and all the other fraudulent non-science and poltical propagandizing, like:</p>
<p>“No matter if the science is all phony, there are still collateral environmental benefits [to global warming scare-mongering]” said Christine Stewart, Canada’s environmental minister.</p>
<p>Or:</p>
<p>“On the one hand, as scientists, we are ethically bound to the scientific method, in effect promising to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but.… On the other hand, we are not just scientists, but human beings as well. And like most people we’d like to see the world a better place. To do that we need to get some broad-based support, to capture the public’s imagination. That, of course, entails getting loads of media coverage. So we have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements, and make little mention of any doubts we ourselves might have….Each of us has to decide” (as opposed to letting the actual facts dictate) “what the right balance is between being effective and being honest,” (said environmental high priest Stephen Schneider of Stanford University, and also director of Atmospheric Science in Boulder, Colorado, speaking to Discover Magazine, p. 47.)</p>
<p>Or: </p>
<p>“The environmental movement is just repackaged Marxism,” said Patrick Moore, co-founder of Green Peace.</p>
<p>And of course:</p>
<p>“Nobody is interested in solutions if they don’t think there’s a problem. Given that starting point, I believe it is appropriate to have an over-representation of factual presentations on how dangerous it is, as a predicate for opening up the audience to listen.” Mr. Albert Gore, ladies and gentlemen, Grist Magazine.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://stephenleahy.net/2007/10/21/ethanol-the-great-big-green-fraud/#comment-5243</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stephen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 21:35:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stephenleahy.wordpress.com/2007/10/21/ethanol-the-great-big-green-fraud/#comment-5243</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Antisocialist - thanks for the comment and you make many valid points in your biofuel take down but you really have to re-think your blind willingness to swallow the US-based fantasy that global warming is some kind of hoax. The rest of the world moved on long ago because they can see the changes with their own eyes. Pls open yours.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Antisocialist &#8211; thanks for the comment and you make many valid points in your biofuel take down but you really have to re-think your blind willingness to swallow the US-based fantasy that global warming is some kind of hoax. The rest of the world moved on long ago because they can see the changes with their own eyes. Pls open yours.</p>
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		<title>By: antisocialist</title>
		<link>http://stephenleahy.net/2007/10/21/ethanol-the-great-big-green-fraud/#comment-5242</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[antisocialist]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 21:18:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stephenleahy.wordpress.com/2007/10/21/ethanol-the-great-big-green-fraud/#comment-5242</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great article. Thank you for that. For interest sake, you might like a similar article I wrote about two months ago: http://the-antisocialist.com/2007/08/06/ethanol/

Thank you again.

Best of all possible regards.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article. Thank you for that. For interest sake, you might like a similar article I wrote about two months ago: <a href="http://the-antisocialist.com/2007/08/06/ethanol/" rel="nofollow">http://the-antisocialist.com/2007/08/06/ethanol/</a></p>
<p>Thank you again.</p>
<p>Best of all possible regards.</p>
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		<title>By: Revendo posições&#8230; ou não&#8230; &#171; Pensando Fora da Caixa</title>
		<link>http://stephenleahy.net/2007/10/21/ethanol-the-great-big-green-fraud/#comment-5238</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Revendo posições&#8230; ou não&#8230; &#171; Pensando Fora da Caixa]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 20:13:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stephenleahy.wordpress.com/2007/10/21/ethanol-the-great-big-green-fraud/#comment-5238</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] 22nd, 2007 &#183; No Comments  Esse blog traz vários argumentos contra a opção dos biocombustíveis para a redução da emissão de CO2 [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 22nd, 2007 &middot; No Comments  Esse blog traz vários argumentos contra a opção dos biocombustíveis para a redução da emissão de CO2 [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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